Sinu Joseph, the Rtu Vidya expert in conversation with PM Vijendra Rao
- How did it all start? You studied in Cluny Convent. Did the convent education in any way influence you later to take up such a work? Did any particular incident during your formative years by chance influence you to take up work on such an enormous scale?
Not really. My schooling or education had very little to do with it. However, I have been a student of science, with a special interest in life sciences and biology all through my student years. That interest took me to explore the subject of menstruation and reproductive health, through my work in the social space, as I engaged with adolescent girls and women.
My work started off as simple awareness sessions on menstruation for rural adolescent girls and women, as a volunteer with an NGO. But the questions they asked about cultural practices such as – ‘why should we not eat papaya, curd or non-veg during menses?’, ‘ why should we not visit a temple during menses?’, ‘ why are we told not to exercise during menses?’ – these questions are what took me on the journey to find answers. But what really drew me in was the enormous amount of deep scientific wisdom and knowledge hidden in cultural practices of the Hindus around menstruation. Whichever menstrual practice we pick, if we dig a little deeper, we will always find that it is rooted in Bhāratiya jñāna Parampara. I found that these practices play an important role in prevention of various menstrual and reproductive disorders. I have been fascinated by how beautifully our ancestors have woven this deep science into simple cultural practices that everyone can follow.
- How many women are really “literate” vis-a-vis Rtu Vidya? Are your challenges different in dealing with the subject in different geographical spaces? Of course, there is one culture that pervades the subcontinent in a restrictive sense.
Ṛtu is one of the words in Sanskrit for menstruation, and Vidyā means knowledge. Ṛtu Vidyā is a name that occurred, as the title of my book ‘Ṛtu Vidyā: Ancient science behind menstrual practices’ released in Sep 2020. The book Ṛtu Vidyā emerged in search of answers to questions asked by adolescent girls and women in India during my interactions with them as part of Menstrual Health workshops, conducted over a span of a decade across rural India. In an attempt to decode menstrual practices, I undertook a journey across India and studied various indigenous knowledge systems such as Ṣaḍ-Darśana, Āyurved, Tantra, Cakra, Yōg, Āgama Śāstra, Jyotiṣa Śāstra, and several sub-texts from these categories. As a result, the book goes beyond just describing cultural practices and takes a deep dive into explaining the scientific and logical reasoning behind the origin of these practices.
Ṛtu Vidyā is not a term that is commonly used to represent menstrual science as such, although I hope it will be, someday. So if you ask me how many women are really “literate” vis-a-vis Ṛtu Vidyā, my answer is that this literacy is much more among rural Indian women compared to semi-urban, urban or western women.
I learnt about the menstrual practices covered in Ṛtu Vidyā from our rural grandmothers, and the book is dedicated to them. So in that sense, the rural Indian women are far ahead in terms of following and applying these menstrual sciences, and that is why they have a much lower prevalence of menstrual disorders compared to urban and western women. Yes, this may come as a surprise to many. But my own field surveys and that of existing published studies indicate that rural Indian girls and women have lower prevalence of menstrual disorders. For ex. the prevalence of dysmenorrhea (period pain) among adolescent girls in a study in Nagpur showed that it is 41.78% among rural girls but as high as 72.61 % among urban girls (Thakre, et.al). Similarly, heavy menstrual bleeding among Indian women is at worst around 23%, but in England, this number is as high as 52% (refer Menstruation: Rhetoric, Research, Reality) .
When it comes to urban and western women, the incidence of menstrual disorders are greater because they either lack the knowledge of cultural practices that prevent these problems since they might have lost connect with their native tradition, or they have been actively rebelling against tradition and doing exactly the opposite of what they are told not to do. So their education and so called literacy has actually backfired badly, and is affecting their health.
(Refer this talk for more information or to quote – Menstrual Health of India)
- Do you see a dichotomy in the groups you work with – we have, on the one hand, families celebrating the arrival of the woman, while at the same time there is the “dirt” idea attached to menstruation?
There is no dichotomy or contradiction in cultural practices based on Bhāratiya Jnana Parampara. The confusion is entirely due to our lack of understanding of these sciences, since they are no longer part of our primary education. For example, let us take this idea of menstrual impurity itself. During my sessions with adolescent girls, I would ask them why they have this notion of menstrual blood as being impure. They would say that it is because menstruation removes certain toxins from the body – that’s what their mothers and grandmothers taught them. Now, to one who has no knowledge of internal bodily toxins, this may seem strange and we would be quick to dismiss it as superstition. But if you understand the concept of ‘ama’ as per Ayurveda, you will be amazed as to how this technical knowledge was simplified and passed on to even children. Let me explain.
As per Ayurveda, menstruation is a time of inner cleansing. This means, the internal bodily toxins called ama are released during this time. Ama accumulates in the body as a result of poor digestion. So if we eat food that our body is not able to digest properly (ex. excess non-vegetarian food), then a portion of it simply rots in our intestine, releasing the toxin known as ama. Ama is responsible for several diseases and also affects fertility, if it is in excess. Menstruation is that process by which a woman’s body gets a free detox. This ensures better fertility since it clears out ama during menstruation. Some women experience this in the form of removal of ama from the skin (acne), upper digestive tract (nausea/vomiting), lower digestive tract (loose motions), cramps & pains due to gastric issues and so on, at the time of menstruation. The extent of menstrual discomfort is directly based on the amount of ama we have accumulated due to poor food and lifestyle habits. A simple plant-based diet, which prevents ama accumulation, along with regular practice of Yoga to improve metabolism, can do wonders to reduce many of the menstrual discomforts. Ayurveda does not consider period pain as normal – it is an indication of ama and can be fixed through correct diet and lifestyle.
When we understand ama and its connection with menstruation, we will understand what the rural women mean when they say that menstruation removes impurities. Of course, due to poor communication skills and incorrect interpretation, it ends up sounding as though menstruation makes women impure, which is incorrect. Menstruation is a process which removes impure ama from the body. In that sense, menstruation actually makes women pure internally, and it is reflected in women’s experience of better health and glowing skin soon after menstruation.
- To what extent have you succeeded in spreading the message of menstrual hygiene? How lack of menstrual hygiene, especially in inefficient methods of disposal of pads, is affecting the environment? And Any quotable episodes you would like to share with our readers?
The term ‘Menstrual Hygiene’ itself is a non-issue. It is an issue created entirely by manufacturers of menstrual products who are trying to enter the rural markets of developing nations. I have myself been approached by the top brands of Sanitary Napkins in the name of CSR funding, with the sole intention of helping them penetrate the rural Indian market. In the process of selling their product, they call our cultural practices as ‘taboo’ and call our women as ‘backward’. That’s why, my team and I stayed away from taking any such funding, right from the beginning of our work. But most NGOs working on menstruation today, are selling some product or the other, because they get funding for it.
When we think of menstrual hygiene, we think of products. We assume that girls are dropping out of school owing to lack of access to sanitary products; we assume that rural girls and women do not have access to good sanitation facilities, etc. All this is simply cooked up. Take the most common statistic which says that only 12% Indian women have access to Sanitary Napkins, and the rest are supposedly using sand, ash, rags, etc. (Refer this report by Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation which quotes this study but their reference does not lead to the study itself). I spent a year trying to trace this study and even reached out to international researchers from the Society of Menstrual Cycle Research (SMCR, Boston) only to realize that there is no published study to prove this. We studied over 150 published research papers from across the globe, and especially of women in India. Here is a gist of what this study revealed:
- No published paper which surveyed Indian women found evidence of using sand, husk or ash as menstrual absorbent.
- Research that studied the use of menstrual absorbents as far back as in 2005 in rural India, showed that around 35% women were already using Sanitary Pads at that time. [Refer Balamurugan et. Al ‘A community based study on menstrual hygiene among reproductive age group women in a rural area, Tamil Nadu’]
- More recently, the National Family Health Study (NFHS) of 2015-16, undertaken across India, revealed that the use of Sanitary Napkins among Indian women is 48.5% in rural, 77.5% in urban and 57.6% total.
As far as dropping out of school is concerned, that is even more false because there is no study which shows that girls leave school owing to periods. At worst, they take a few days leave and the reason for that is period pain, not lack of menstrual products or even toilets. Even in that, in India if 24% (van Eijk AM et al) girls miss school owing to dysmenorrhea/period pain, the numbers are 38% in Texas (U.S) (Banikarim C et al), 26% in Australia (Parker MA et al) and 46% in New York city (O’Connell et al)!
So you can see how this non-issue has been made into an issue with false statistics and twisted narratives that shame our women and insult our culture.
(As for disposal of pads, that is an issue connected to Waste Management and the available engineering solutions for it. It cannot be dealt at an individual level anymore.)
- I am sure that you look at your journey as a two-way learning process and you have found it rewarding. Would you like to elaborate?
I started my work as a menstrual educator, assuming that I will go to villages and teach rural girls and women. But I was completely wrong. It was I who had to learn from them. The extent of practical knowledge that our rural sisters have is enormous. It has been a massive unlearning and re-learning process for me. My book Ṛtu Vidya happened because of our rural mothers and sisters who are still practicing the age old traditions, even though they cannot always articulate the reason for their faith in these practices. So the learning in that sense, was entirely one-way – from them to me.
- How widespread is the use of contraceptives and what has been its deleterious impact on women, especially rural women?
My work has not focussed on this, so I will not be able to comment in detail. But yes, contraceptive and birth control pills used by women definitely disturb their menstrual rhythm. Their bleeding patterns change because of contraceptives. It is best if men shoulder the responsibility when it comes to contraceptives.
- Are women from other religions benefiting as well? Anything memorable to share?
I did not measure it as such. However, Rtu Vidya has one chapter on menstrual practices among Orthodox Christian women and Muslim women. It is similar in many ways to the practices of Hindu women. When we understand Hindu practices in depth, it becomes easier to decode other practices as well, given that Hinduism is the mother of all ancient religions and traditions.
For ex., Muslim women are not supposed to perform Namaz during menses. But most of them don’t know the reason beyond attributing it to religious fear/respect. The position in which they sit during Namaz is what we called Vajrasan in Yoga. In this position, the Samana Vayu and Apana Vayu (which aid digestion and excretion) are regulated. Since these two vayus, especially apana vayu, is already active during menstruation, sitting in Vajrasana can cause excess bleeding due to activation of apana vayu. Hence, it is best to be avoided for women who already have a healthy menstrual flow.
- How did colonisation affect Rtu Vidya? What does Rtu Vidya have on offer to women outside of the subcontinent?
Rtu Vidya is entirely based on the Bhāratiya Jnana Parampara. At one point in India, this knowledge system was understood, respected and followed in the home of every Hindu. With colonization and the change in education, we lost vast amounts of this knowledge. Our sciences like Ayurveda, Yoga, Jyotisha and Tantra came to be called pseudo-science. Even today, Ayurveda is at best called ‘alternative science’ and western science is still our mainstream science. Given this scenario, Ṛtu Vidya is a sort of homecoming of our native knowledge system.
When we learn about cultural practices of women in other parts of the world that was colonized, especially pertaining to menstruation, we find a great number of similarities. For example, menarche celebration which is very common in South India was also followed by women across Africa, China, Sri Lanka, Philippines, and even among Jewish women. But most of the women of this generation in these nations do not follow these practices anymore. In India, because of the efforts of our rural Hindu grandmothers, at least we have the practices even today even though we may have forgotten the science behind it. In the rest of the world, even that is lacking as Christianity took over indigenous cultures. So for women in the rest of the world too, Ṛtu Vidya is a lens that will help them trace back their roots and their native traditions.
- Sensitivity on part of male members of the family, especially husband, plays a role in the evolution of menstrual practices. Your observations?
Across South India, the culture itself has ensured that men and boys become sensitive to menstruation and help out in household work when the lady of the house is on her period. Even today, we see this in many homes. It is very difficult for women to follow ‘Rajaswala Paricharya’ the menstrual regime as per Ayurveda, if men in the house do not contribute and help. But thankfully, at least in South India that is not a problem. In North India too, we used to have menarche celebration and it was called Gauna. But with muslim invasion, people did not want to announce the coming-of-age of the girl child. As a result, the practice of Gauna died out and we see that lack of celebratory attitude towards menstruation in North and Central India, because of it.
- It is tempting to entertain a rather romantic notion of there being a synchronicity between the rtu chakra and the lunar cycle. It is as if such an ideal would take us closer to an ideal society. Any comments?
There is a village called Marahalli in Yellapura taluk, Uttara Kannada District, Karnataka, where my team and I did a pre-screening of women for menstrual and reproductive disorders. In that village, we found that all women had their period around the same date, month after month. They marked the period date based on Amavasya.
In Kamrup district of Assam where Ma Kamakhya is said to menstruate once every year (called Ambubachi festival), all the women also get their period at the same time. The whole region takes a menstrual leave during Ambubachi festival. Similar phenomena is seen in Orissa and is called the Raja Parbha festival.
So yes, women in a particular region can menstruate at the same time, if they are healthy and in sync with the larger cycles of nature. Although we mark time using the moon (lunar calendar), the real influencer is the Sun. As the Sun’s cycle shifts from Uttarayana to Dakshinayana, our period also shifts. So the period could occur on the same dates, for those on whom the influence of the Sun is similar, i.e. they live in the same region, provided they are all in good menstrual health.
The ancient Brihat Jataka text by Varahamihira talks about how menstruation is caused by the Moon (which influences bodily fluids) and the planet Kuja/Mars (which influences blood). Every month, when the bleeding starts, if you check the hora (hour in which the influence of a planet is dominant) you will see that it will always start when Kuja/Mars hora is dominant. So Mars is also a big influencer of menstruation.
When we study menstruation through the knowledge in texts like Brihat Jataka, it no longer is a romantic notion of menstruating in sync with nature. It is a science and an indication of good menstrual health. I have written about this at length in one of the chapters in Ṛtu Vidya.
- Any experiences to share from your ClubHouse interactions?
We have a room called Ṛtu Vidya Readers Club, on the app Clubhouse. We discuss different topics about menstruation in this club. Since it is open to the public, we have had women from different parts of the world join this room. In the process of interaction with women from different colonized nations, we have come to realize that there is a lot of similarity in cultural practices around menstruation. Along with menarche rituals, practices of taking rest during menstruation, of avoiding spicy or sour food, of menstrual seclusion, avoiding washing the hair, avoiding being near men, and so on – these practices were apparently common among women in Africa, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Philippines and China at one point. It is interesting because it shows how when women connect with menstruation in a deeper way, they discover the science behind it, regardless of which part of the world they are from. From that experiential scientific wisdom, the cultural practices emerge and are passed on from generation to generation.
- What support would you expect in furthering the cause of Rtu Vidya?
Rtu Vidya is a work that is beyond an organization, any individual, and even me. It is the coming together of the voices of our Hindu ancestors. Those who trust the culture and tradition of their ancestors and follow it, do not need Ṛtu Vidya. But those who have questions regarding these practices and can’t seem to make sense of why we do what we do, will definitely benefit from understanding the science behind these rules and restrictions. It is not a book to be read and kept aside, but a collection of practices to be understood and followed for our own good health. Whether we understand these practices through the book, or by ourselves connecting to the ancient knowledge, is up to each of us. But we need to bring an awareness en masse that our cultural practices are not taboo or superstition; there is a deep rooted science in every practice, waiting to be uncovered.
- Any memories of the Sabarimala episode you would like to share with our readers?
The topic is too large for a short paragraph. I would prefer to leave it out here.
- Please talk about any impediments/setbacks through your journey. What is your ultimate target – both numerically and in terms of satisfaction? Do you look beyond India? How much of Rtu Vidya is needed to be understood and imbibed by the West, for instance?
Set-back/Impediment – For the first four-five years of my work, I did the standard menstrual hygiene talks, and our work had reached a certain peak. At that point, we had not looked into the cultural practices and used to dismiss it as superstition. But the repeated questions from rural girls and women across India made us think more deeply. That’s when, at the peak of our work, we did a complete U-Turn and said that we need to study more about cultural practices. That led to a period of 2-3 years where it looked like we were not doing much, but that transformation was crucial for the bigger change to happen. I wouldn’t call it a set-back or impediment, but definitely it took a lot of restraint from within to say no to typical ‘product distribution’ projects, and it also took a leap of faith in the culture of Bharat to forge ahead when I was not even sure what I was looking for. But I am glad we did that.
Ultimate Goal – Rtu Vidya happened entirely through Devi’s Grace. I have only been an instrument in making it happen. I do not know how I began to understand our ancient sciences, how I made the connect with the cultural practices, and how I found the words to express it in a book. I did not even plan the name of the book – even that came to me during meditation. So how can I be the one to plan where this book should go? It is entirely Her decision. My job is done with getting the book out.
- Role of technology in spreading Rtu Vidya. Need for optimization?
So far, the book has reached people solely through social media and word of mouth. I have never promoted it in a big way or done typical celebrity endorsements. Every talk of mine on social media was always because someone approached me for the talk. So yes, technology has been the driver, through Devi’s Grace.
- Yoni puja – is it picked up as a mere fad in the West? Please put the concept in perspective in the Indian context – the true significance in imparting reproductive health. You have studied Tantra, hence this question.
There are layers of understanding, based on one’s depth of awareness and ability to comprehend. In the simplest terms, Yoni puja simply means reverence to the feminine. In other instances, Yoni is considered as the seat of Shakti and the cause of creation, as we see in Ma Kamakhya Mandir discussed in Rtu Vidya. In its more complex and perhaps original form, it refers to certain rituals as propounded in the texts of Tantra. But that is not to be discussed as a generic topic, because the chances of misunderstanding is huge. That is why, Tantra considers some things to be rahasya and not to be discussed publicly. So I would leave it at that.
- I have for long thought about the need for mandatory relief for menstruating working class women – the need for reducing their work burden, which is not always easy, given their distress; as also enforcing legislation to provide them privacy at workplace, with particular reference to those in the construction sector.
To know more about Menstrual Leave, you can refer my blog – Menstrual Leave: The first step to work in sync with nature
- Puberty age is advancing in urban girls for two main reasons: modified food and exposure to digital media. What is the kind of stress it is exposing the young girls to, if it is?
Yes, the age of attaining puberty is decreasing in some urban girls. The reasons, however, are not as crystal clear as we would like to think. It could be food, it could be vaccinations, it could be lifestyle – I don’t think modern science is very clear about it. It could also be inherent prakriti as per Ayurveda. For example, those who have pitta prakriti tend to attain puberty a bit sooner than others. Whatever the reason, it does create stress if the parents are not culturally grounded. When we see rural girls, all of them are usually thrilled about celebrating menarche and in that process they do not feel any stress associated with this change. Menarche is something the rural girls look forward to because of the cultural association with celebration and the girl being treated as someone special. Stress happens when we lose that connect and look at menstruation as something to be ‘managed’ or ‘tolerated’.
- Any observations on PMS and menopausal issues among rural women? Are they distinct? Does Rtu Vidya address such issues as well?
PMS is discussed in Rtu Vidya. It is the most misunderstood phase of the menstrual cycle, thanks to the lack of holistic understanding of modern science. PMS is the time when there is a natural rise in pitta and vata dosha in preparation for menstruation. It is therefore critical to watch one’s diet and avoid food that aggravates pitta and vata at this time. PMS doesn’t have to be bad at all, and can be accommodated comfortably with the right knowledge. It can even be a time of great inner change, since that’s when women’s intuition is at its highest. With rural women who haven’t been conditioned by modern education, they are naturally aware of these things and don’t make a big deal out of it.
As for menopause, it becomes a problem for two reasons –
– If menstruation has been ill-managed during the bleeding years. For ex., by not following the traditional rules as prescribed. I have seen this especially among women who have rebelled and visited temples during menstruation. They ignore the early signs of menstrual problems because they don’t connect it to temple visits. Finally, when it is time for menopause, they struggle with heavy bleeding or some other problem for months together and finally end up having to get a hysterectomy done (removal of the uterus). I have mentioned the testimonials of such women in Rtu Vidya and in my talks.
– the other reason is psychological and it has to do with women’s difficulty in accepting aging. Menopause goes smoother with rural women for the simple reason that they age more gracefully than urban women. When women are married at the right age, become mothers and then grandmothers, they don’t resist aging and enjoy each phase of life. In the modern context, from coloring the hair to hide graying, from getting botox or wearing heavy makeup to hide wrinkles, and dressing much younger than their age, women are highly insecure and resist aging. That is when menopause becomes difficult. Just as menstruation is a beautiful journey, so is menopause. Menopause is the start of a fulfilling spiritual journey for women. When they don’t connect it to spirituality and keep looking back at the menstruating years, a lot of problems arise.
- Anything else?
Thank you for being interested in such a subject.
